1 00:00:06,860 --> 00:00:10,600 I feel like... something's wrong will happen to me. 2 00:00:12,060 --> 00:00:14,870 I feel like something is wrong happened. 3 00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:18,710 It hasn't reached me yet, But it's on its way. 4 00:00:30,610 --> 00:00:31,670 I don't know why it matters. 5 00:00:31,670 --> 00:00:35,310 It's like how it helps people, like, dealing with her loss, 6 00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:38,730 like making up stories about ghosts or whatever. 7 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,580 Alice kept the secret. 8 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:57,120 She... kept the truth She kept a secret. 9 00:01:06,380 --> 00:01:10,970 It's hard for some people to understand, But you must believe that you are at fault 10 00:01:10,980 --> 00:01:13,930 otherwise there is nothing to hold on to. 11 00:01:48,290 --> 00:01:49,340 Police and emergency services. 12 00:01:49,350 --> 00:01:52,500 My daughter, Alice, is missing. We need some... 13 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,390 - How long have you been here... - She's in the dam... 14 00:01:55,390 --> 00:01:56,630 look everywhere. 15 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,530 - Do you know where you are? - We're on the other side of the dam. 16 00:02:03,530 --> 00:02:06,330 - She's been missing for quite a while... - Okay. 17 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:10,030 - Send someone away now. - I need you to talk to me for a moment. 18 00:02:10,030 --> 00:02:14,060 - We don't know where she is. - Hello, June, can you hear me? 19 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,390 Ararat's inherent peaceful scene Norval Dam broke yesterday... 20 00:02:28,390 --> 00:02:30,980 with disappearance by Alice Palmer, 16 years old... 21 00:02:30,980 --> 00:02:32,690 when going on a picnic with family. 22 00:02:32,690 --> 00:02:36,920 We get a call around 6 p.m. tonight of a missing girl, 23 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,030 and when exploring the nature of the situation... 24 00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:41,690 We called for search and rescue diver from Melbourne. 25 00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:45,260 Police divers enter the surrounding water 10am with SES volunteers... 26 00:02:45,260 --> 00:02:46,740 engage in a fruitless search... 27 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:50,360 Matt and Ali swam out to the middle of the dam. 28 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:55,180 Where can I see them from? I'm sitting in the picnic area. 29 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:57,480 I thought we were underwater for about 15 minutes, 30 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,200 and I said I was going out. It's cold. 31 00:03:02,390 --> 00:03:05,490 So I started swimming again and she doesn't hang out with me, 32 00:03:05,490 --> 00:03:07,940 so I think she will be in there. 33 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,440 I remember Matty was out, 34 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:18,010 and a few minutes later, I heard him ask where Alice was. 35 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,340 So I stood up and looked out over the dam, 36 00:03:26,340 --> 00:03:29,860 and the water was completely still. 37 00:03:31,450 --> 00:03:33,290 So I called. 38 00:03:34,490 --> 00:03:38,940 I looked out at the water to see if I could see her. 39 00:03:41,630 --> 00:03:44,960 And both guys checked, 40 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,980 You know, the bushes in the back. 41 00:03:49,340 --> 00:03:53,280 I can see Alice's scarf, she left it on the ground, 42 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,040 and clearly she hadn't out of the water... 43 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,350 because then, you know, She would have picked up her scarf, so... 44 00:04:02,650 --> 00:04:06,460 Yes, that was the last time that I saw her. 45 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:31,200 The police continue to hold serious fears for 16 year old Alice Palmer 46 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,690 who disappeared while on a picnic with her family. 47 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,340 Police search for divers... 48 00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:37,600 We were told to go home, 49 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,050 and if search and rescue divers find anything 50 00:04:43,050 --> 00:04:45,430 then they will let us know immediately. 51 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,900 The feeling in the car is very strange on the way home 52 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:02,620 because there is one empty seat. 53 00:05:02,870 --> 00:05:07,990 One minute she's there and then she's gone. 54 00:05:10,650 --> 00:05:13,440 I came back to stay with the Palmers that night. 55 00:05:13,450 --> 00:05:17,220 We mostly just wait, mainly waiting for news. 56 00:05:19,790 --> 00:05:23,270 As for the bad news. There is that expectation. 57 00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:28,700 We received a call from Russell on his cell phone around 9pm. 58 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:33,570 And he said there had been an accident at the dam, 59 00:05:33,570 --> 00:05:36,230 and Alice is missing. 60 00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:40,320 So we thought We'd better go to Ararat. 61 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:46,140 I remember June being a bit funny about meeting Iris, 62 00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:49,580 There was a strange feeling between them. 63 00:05:49,580 --> 00:05:53,960 It feels a bit strange my mother was there. 64 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,270 Mom and I were there for Alice, 65 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,100 It's just that I feel it's out of order of things. 66 00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:06,680 It was a terrible, terrible night. 67 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,680 Worst night of our lives. 68 00:06:14,140 --> 00:06:16,840 That evening I went into Alice's room 69 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:23,760 and her phone went off a few times, But I didn't answer it. 70 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,610 I remember, the bed was already made. 71 00:06:33,630 --> 00:06:36,940 I remember thinking How neat everything looks. 72 00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:54,370 I got a call from Alice's mother, June. 73 00:06:54,370 --> 00:07:00,640 She said that Alice was missing and supposedly, like, she drowned 74 00:07:02,350 --> 00:07:04,120 and I don't trust her, 75 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,490 but, I don't know, it's a bit hard to accept, 76 00:07:08,490 --> 00:07:12,360 so I actually called Alice's cell phone. 77 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:13,940 I just... 78 00:07:16,170 --> 00:07:17,460 Maybe want to see if. . . 79 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:20,120 Hope it's a joke or something, I don't know. 80 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,520 It was just a real shock. 81 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,120 It just doesn't really feel like it's real. 82 00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:35,190 Everything is as always, but everyone said Alice drowned. 83 00:07:35,290 --> 00:07:39,370 Any memories from that night? What stands out to you? 84 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,770 I remember we turned on the porch light. 85 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:47,350 Actually, I still do that, just as a precaution. 86 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,240 And why is that? 87 00:07:59,010 --> 00:08:01,850 Just in case she comes home, I guess. 88 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,280 Okay, come in. 89 00:08:29,770 --> 00:08:34,830 SES divers found Alice's body around September 25. I. 90 00:08:34,830 --> 00:08:38,870 They used sonar to locate her. And she was drifting in a way 91 00:08:38,870 --> 00:08:43,530 and stopped on a shelf at the bottom of the rainwater system in the dam. 92 00:08:44,750 --> 00:08:47,340 Apparently contacted the family immediately. 93 00:08:48,490 --> 00:08:51,420 As soon as we were told that they found the body, 94 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:52,820 June and I went down to the dam. 95 00:08:52,820 --> 00:08:55,020 Georgie has come to keep Matt company. 96 00:08:55,020 --> 00:09:00,120 It's all very official and formal, and they asked me to sign a statement 97 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,790 identification. 98 00:09:01,790 --> 00:09:03,980 June stayed in the car. 99 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:07,830 And you know, when I reflect back, I think that was a mistake 100 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:10,420 because she doesn't have any closure. 101 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:16,860 I just can't bring myself to identify Alice's body. 102 00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:22,080 She was underwater all that time and it... 103 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,400 I guess that's not how I... 104 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,310 I don't want to remember her that way. 105 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:34,810 I think it's my responsibility is Ali's father, you know. 106 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:39,340 That's what a father does. 107 00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:01,880 The car stalled on the way home from the dam. 108 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,120 But the only device I can use was the opposite. 109 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,850 So we drove back into town. 110 00:10:09,830 --> 00:10:14,630 It's either that or walk. And based on everything that's happened, 111 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,360 actually seems like the better option. 112 00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:32,200 The autopsy was performed on Monday, day 27. 113 00:10:34,420 --> 00:10:40,200 The medical examiner then released the body on Tuesday, the 28th. 114 00:10:43,270 --> 00:10:48,010 It's so strange to spend Christmas day with family up there 115 00:10:48,570 --> 00:10:51,350 while Alice lies alone in the morgue. 116 00:11:01,420 --> 00:11:05,980 I don't know, it's like I haven't been seeing her for a week or something, like... 117 00:11:05,980 --> 00:11:08,330 Yes, it doesn't feel real. 118 00:11:13,330 --> 00:11:16,190 Death will eventually take everything away. 119 00:11:16,190 --> 00:11:18,930 It's the stupidest, most vile machine yes, and it just keeps coming... 120 00:11:18,930 --> 00:11:21,010 and it doesn't care. 121 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:26,350 Nothing else to know about it, actually. 122 00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:32,340 It was a gloomy day to the family and friends of Alice Palmer 123 00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:36,660 people gathered to pay their last respects for a young woman taken too soon. 124 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,830 She is a wonderful person. Very popular, smart, lovely. 125 00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:43,570 She was... I didn't... . Yes. 126 00:11:43,620 --> 00:11:47,820 Alice is remembered as a happy person, Happy girl, loves life. 127 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:49,760 Described as always putting others... 128 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,170 The Palmers were really struggling at that time. 129 00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:58,160 And when I think about it How bad was it back then? 130 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,750 it's hard to imagine How much worse will they get. 131 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,980 Ten days after Ali's funeral, So today is January 15th, 132 00:12:18,990 --> 00:12:23,570 things start happening around the house. Noise on the roof, 133 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,030 and the sound is coming from outside the window 134 00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:33,790 and other movements Looks like it came from Ali's old room. 135 00:12:35,270 --> 00:12:39,800 So we re-hung Ali's door, 136 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,810 and we had a pest controller come and termite inspection. 137 00:12:43,810 --> 00:12:46,180 But it doesn't help at all, 138 00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:51,030 The door still slammed and we continued getting noise from her room. 139 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,650 There's just something strange about that house. 140 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:58,590 It has a really strange feel about it. 141 00:12:58,590 --> 00:13:02,390 I really can't explain it to you what exactly is it, 142 00:13:02,390 --> 00:13:07,580 But you'll go in there and just have it This bad feeling, like, in your gut. 143 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,040 I started having these nightmares, 144 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,810 and they were miserable 145 00:13:23,810 --> 00:13:28,900 that sometimes I just don't want to open my eyes. 146 00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:32,010 I woke up, But I don't want to open my eyes. 147 00:13:34,030 --> 00:13:38,900 There is one in particular, it is quite vivid and recurring. 148 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,730 Alice will walk down the hallway still dripping from the dam 149 00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:48,520 and just stood at the foot of our bed, just staring at us. 150 00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:54,890 It's quite scary, Like I said, I don't want to open my eyes. 151 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,180 By early February My nightmares got worse 152 00:14:02,180 --> 00:14:08,130 that I started walking at night, sometimes for hours, 153 00:14:08,130 --> 00:14:10,750 just so I don't have it go to sleep at night 154 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,520 and close your eyes and go to sleep. 155 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,280 Sometimes I'll actually go into people's homes. 156 00:14:20,810 --> 00:14:24,290 I don't feel as if I had done something wrong. 157 00:14:24,650 --> 00:14:29,850 I guess I really just wanted to stay inside someone else's life for a while. 158 00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:44,190 Georgie, do you remember? How was Russell at that time? 159 00:14:44,190 --> 00:14:48,960 Yes, Russell was... At that time he worked a lot. 160 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,480 I think that might have helped him with my grief. 161 00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:54,990 Sent it over without any explanation. 162 00:14:55,410 --> 00:14:59,640 Russell and I actually met on the Gippsland Basin project in '98 163 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,770 and do it together. 164 00:15:01,770 --> 00:15:03,580 So you guys know each other in a few years? 165 00:15:03,580 --> 00:15:05,020 Well, a good few years, yes. 166 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:12,350 Do you remember how he was affected? After Alice's death? What has changed? 167 00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:16,860 Everything is still going normally and that's really causing trouble. 168 00:15:16,860 --> 00:15:20,440 I really didn't know What to say to him about that. 169 00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:22,960 You never talked about it? 170 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,020 Not really. Everyone grieves in their own way. 171 00:15:26,030 --> 00:15:30,910 And that's really not my place to tell him how I feel. 172 00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:34,790 But I'm sure... I was definitely nervous. 173 00:15:36,780 --> 00:15:40,000 I'm truly grateful that I have my job. 174 00:15:40,420 --> 00:15:43,510 And I mean, I feel really guilty about that at the time. 175 00:15:43,510 --> 00:15:46,930 But you know, I just want to get on with it. 176 00:15:51,190 --> 00:15:54,990 Then one night in late February, 177 00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:58,750 I come home after work, and I'm sitting in the kitchen 178 00:15:59,070 --> 00:16:02,150 and I heard a noise coming from Ali's room. 179 00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:07,940 So I went into Ali's room, and I really don't know why, 180 00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:13,250 But I found myself sitting down on the chair in front of the wardrobe. 181 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:17,840 And before I can practice what I did there, 182 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,380 Ali walks in and she comes over to her desk 183 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:23,290 and started sharpening my pencil, 184 00:16:23,290 --> 00:16:29,310 and then she looked like she was checking for a text message on her phone. 185 00:16:30,670 --> 00:16:33,820 And, you know, I was completely frightened. 186 00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:38,590 She was completely clueless in my presence. 187 00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:43,970 And then I don't know what happened, I must have moved the bed 188 00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:46,410 or, you know, my shoes were squeaking or something, 189 00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:48,930 but she became completely rigid. 190 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,600 And I knew then that she knew I was there. 191 00:16:55,460 --> 00:17:00,980 And she slowly turned around and she looked me straight in the eye because, 192 00:17:00,980 --> 00:17:04,150 You know, what feels like forever. 193 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,900 And then she came to me and stood up and said: "Get out! Get out!" 194 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:14,250 And I just woke up and get out as fast as possible. 195 00:17:15,610 --> 00:17:17,370 I could hear Russell crying. 196 00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:20,880 And he was in the kitchen, Mathew and I both found him here, 197 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,110 and he was sobbing. 198 00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:25,530 He was completely inconsolable. 199 00:17:26,190 --> 00:17:29,310 Do you trust Russell? when he said he saw a ghost? 200 00:17:29,310 --> 00:17:33,150 Yeah I do. I believe he saw what he saw. 201 00:17:33,150 --> 00:17:38,140 And he won't... He won't nice man to make something up. 202 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,080 So I believe he saw something. 203 00:17:42,370 --> 00:17:46,280 Whether it's a real ghost or not, I really don't know. 204 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,090 But I'm sure he saw something. 205 00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:10,920 I remember trying to talk for church members 206 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,680 about how to help June and how to help the Palmers. 207 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,850 But it seems there isn't Is there anything we can do. 208 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,340 I think part of the reason is because they are not church goers. 209 00:18:24,340 --> 00:18:27,650 So I don't know how to comfort them. 210 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,660 I don't even know what June believes. 211 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,870 I found myself mostly interested about Mathew. 212 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,280 I guess because those two have always been very close, 213 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,940 I worry how he will cope. 214 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,250 I remember him spending more time alone. 215 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,520 We are all worried about him. 216 00:19:03,850 --> 00:19:08,250 Mathew arrived with some unusual bruises on his body. 217 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:12,260 They are unusual about their distribution and depth. 218 00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:17,290 Obviously we got the history, try to rule out trauma, 219 00:19:17,290 --> 00:19:21,560 but certainly no history about the hurt he can bring us. 220 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,460 We tested him for vasculitis, 221 00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:27,650 and we also ruled out any poisoning or poison in his body. 222 00:19:28,170 --> 00:19:30,970 We cannot to come up with anything conclusive. 223 00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:37,020 And a few weeks later, The bruises just heal on their own. 224 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:41,320 And we never could to really establish a cause for them. 225 00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:47,360 My name is Steve Wilkie. I'm Mathew's best friend. 226 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,430 I usually stay at Mathew's house two or three times a week. 227 00:19:54,490 --> 00:20:00,580 We formed a band together, So, we often play music at my house. 228 00:20:01,670 --> 00:20:06,040 Mathew seems a little quieter, but he's always been pretty quiet, 229 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,690 So I guess there really isn't any warning bells going off or anything. 230 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,510 Ah, I heard about June going into people's houses. 231 00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:17,410 And Mathew never really seemed to want to talk about any of it. 232 00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:20,170 I never asked him about any of it. 233 00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:28,610 I know he always cares in photography. 234 00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:30,220 And he was... 235 00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:34,210 At this time, he began to pursue it with more passion. 236 00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:43,130 Mathew came to me, he was very enthusiastic to learn anything about photography. 237 00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:47,200 So I'm happy to help, that's what I do. 238 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,910 So he picked my brain about anything related to it, 239 00:20:50,910 --> 00:20:54,600 From equipment, to technology, down to the light, you know. 240 00:20:55,390 --> 00:20:59,160 But he's a great asset, so, I mean, I ended up hiring him. 241 00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:27,510 Mathew, can you talk to me? about the photos 242 00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:30,670 about the backyard where you live? 243 00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:35,300 Yes, I basically took that photo 244 00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:40,690 with that layout, I think, every 4 months for the past 4 years. 245 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:43,350 And that's just one photo of the backyard. 246 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,080 Find out, you can see the hills in the distance. 247 00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:47,780 It's like a small project 248 00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:50,680 which I arranged myself when we got here. 249 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,690 And what's in the April 28 photo Is that different? 250 00:21:56,710 --> 00:22:01,620 Oh, it's basically the same shot, 251 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:08,170 But it will appear that Alice was leaning against the fence. 252 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:20,060 Do you remember any reaction? Were you in the house at that time? 253 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:24,910 I wouldn't say the mood is good, but it was better than before. 254 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,170 It is loved... Just like it gave us I think there's something to focus on. 255 00:22:31,170 --> 00:22:32,550 All of us. 256 00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:38,810 Photos were taken on April 3, 257 00:22:38,810 --> 00:22:44,900 and they were developed on day 4, and I looked at them, I think on the 5th. 258 00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:49,560 And look at the dams and water courses level and I'm quite happy. 259 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,460 But only until the next night that was pointed out to me by my wife 260 00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:54,860 that there is something in the background 261 00:22:54,860 --> 00:22:57,580 At Norval Dam, this image appears. 262 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,580 The first time I looked at the photo, I don't know what to do with it. 263 00:23:15,580 --> 00:23:21,840 That image is quite disturbing because it sure looks like Alice. 264 00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:26,570 It was an extremely unpleasant image. 265 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,680 And I was convinced that Alice is still alive. 266 00:23:41,810 --> 00:23:46,520 I have no reasonable explanation Because who is in those photos? 267 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,020 But I already know something about Alice June is not. 268 00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:57,140 I saw Alice's body. I don't think she's alive. 269 00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:00,610 I know she's not. 270 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,480 I was convinced that Russell made a mistake. 271 00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:09,450 He said it himself that it is no longer the same. 272 00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:13,810 June was very convincing that I made a mistake 273 00:24:13,810 --> 00:24:16,740 that I have actually begun Let yourself have doubts. 274 00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:21,410 I started thinking Maybe I've already decided 275 00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:25,140 that it was Alice's body before I looked, 276 00:24:25,150 --> 00:24:29,420 and that's the situation very attractive to me, 277 00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:33,340 that I decided that it was her. 278 00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:40,250 More than three months after the funeral by Ararat teenager Alice Palmer, 279 00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:42,560 Her grieving parents made a formal request 280 00:24:42,570 --> 00:24:45,320 Her body was exhumed from the common cemetery. 281 00:24:45,410 --> 00:24:47,970 There has been some controversy from the Palmer family 282 00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:51,570 about accuracy about initial body identification. 283 00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:56,300 June and Russell Palmer were adamant DNA testing will be performed. 284 00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:59,690 They just can't be sure that the body they identify as actually Alice. 285 00:24:59,820 --> 00:25:01,050 And today, almost... 286 00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:05,680 Alice's body was exhumed in the presence of by funeral director, Dr. Slatter, 287 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,990 and have a representative also from the coroner's office. 288 00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:11,790 And then it's shipped to Ararat Base Hospital 289 00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:14,420 where they took DNA samples. 290 00:25:14,420 --> 00:25:17,910 And there she stayed until the results come out. 291 00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:27,620 A few days later we received a copy in the coroner's preliminary report, 292 00:25:28,210 --> 00:25:33,660 and Alice's identity has been confirmed by matching DNA samples. 293 00:25:35,890 --> 00:25:40,120 Only after they have confirmed that it was Alice's body 294 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:45,570 that I realized how much I had invested in all likelihood it wasn't her. 295 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,860 You know, I can't tell you How much I wanted to be there 296 00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:54,420 a terrible mistake, even though it was mine. 297 00:25:55,910 --> 00:26:00,030 Really, really want it Somebody else's child in that dam. 298 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,630 One escaped, one victim was murdered. 299 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,370 Just anyone else's, As long as it's not my child. 300 00:26:06,380 --> 00:26:09,030 Just as long as it's not Alice. 301 00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:28,950 Yes, that's right. 302 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,350 Stop it. 303 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,460 Oh my God. 304 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,050 Alice was reburied two days later, on June 7. 305 00:26:58,230 --> 00:27:03,480 But the question still remains, Who or what is in those photos? 306 00:27:25,390 --> 00:27:28,690 Well, I keep hearing things, and... 307 00:27:28,690 --> 00:27:31,700 - What did you hear? - I heard a noise. Like... 308 00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:34,860 They don't really relent. I kept hearing noises in the hallway. 309 00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:37,770 So I thought, “Oh, I'll install a camera 310 00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:42,020 "to see if I see anything, see something". 311 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:13,380 The first night I looked back and has a shot of a character 312 00:28:14,110 --> 00:28:20,390 move from the living room through the hallway to the front door. 313 00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:35,050 You are on Voice FM, August 2. 314 00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:40,030 I'm Helen Bath and we're taking calls with spiritual consultant, Ray Kemeney. 315 00:28:40,030 --> 00:28:42,090 Next we have Nadia on the line, Ray. 316 00:28:42,090 --> 00:28:45,330 Hi Nadia, how are you? What can I do for you? 317 00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:48,500 My question is about career, and I also have a question about family. 318 00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:54,070 At about that time I decided to seek the advice of Ray Kemeney. 319 00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:57,580 I heard Ray on the radio over the years, 320 00:28:57,580 --> 00:29:02,210 and opinion is quite divided, some people think he's the real deal, 321 00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:04,180 others are not convinced. 322 00:29:04,190 --> 00:29:08,060 - Next we have Annie on the line. - Hello Annie, how are you? 323 00:29:08,290 --> 00:29:10,720 I'm fine, thanks, Ray. Thank you for taking my call. 324 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,530 Pleased. What can I do for you? 325 00:29:14,130 --> 00:29:17,010 I just want to read in general. 326 00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:20,180 In general, not just medical. 327 00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:22,430 I was born Hungarian. 328 00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:24,780 My parents came out here when I was quite young. 329 00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:29,540 I have a 15 year old daughter living with her mother in South Australia. 330 00:29:29,540 --> 00:29:33,910 My Christian name is actually Schultz, but I changed it to Ray. 331 00:29:33,910 --> 00:29:37,500 I think it's a more trustworthy name for a psychic. 332 00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:42,040 Australia's chosen psychic. 333 00:29:45,130 --> 00:29:46,520 Most of what I do is... 334 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,790 When I treat sick people or the dying person, 335 00:29:49,790 --> 00:29:52,950 which I guess probably fits about a third of my customers, 336 00:29:53,770 --> 00:29:57,100 is to allow them the ability that death is not a bitter end, 337 00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:01,230 that it is not a complete stop. 338 00:30:01,230 --> 00:30:03,270 Where is the consolation? that I was quite happy to give them 339 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:08,190 Consider the reality of what happens after death it is up for grabs anyway. 340 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,930 There is someone very close to you someone you haven't seen in a while, 341 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,150 someone is going to get back to your life. 342 00:30:18,150 --> 00:30:21,100 Someone will be a great comfort to you. 343 00:30:23,060 --> 00:30:25,290 Does anyone fit that bill? 344 00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:27,530 Yeah, I can think of someone. 345 00:30:27,530 --> 00:30:30,290 Look, I won't lie to you, Annie, I can see the obstacles ahead of you... 346 00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:33,390 But I think this person who will come back to you... 347 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,890 will make a big difference and will be a great comfort to you. 348 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:40,860 Thanks, Ray. 349 00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:43,520 See you soon, Annie. 350 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,390 Where do I come from? when someone dies, 351 00:31:01,390 --> 00:31:03,390 they block all the mirrors stay in the house... 352 00:31:03,390 --> 00:31:06,910 to prevent... death from finding your way back. 353 00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:10,620 Things like that, that makes a difference. 354 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,490 Hi Annie. I'm Ray. 355 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,640 You will die, Annie. 356 00:31:36,030 --> 00:31:39,270 That's just the beginning about something else, okay? 357 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,420 - Thank. - It's OK. 358 00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:45,650 Alright. 359 00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:52,940 I liked Ray immediately, but he wasn't what I expected. 360 00:31:52,940 --> 00:31:57,880 I don't know what I really expected, but nothing scary... 361 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,630 or fake about him. 362 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,710 Alright. Are we ready? 363 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,440 I want you to close your eyes. . . 364 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,770 I often videotape my workout sessions... 365 00:32:19,770 --> 00:32:23,210 so that they can be reviewed later by customers, 366 00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:27,520 especially when there are factors relating to a state of trance or hypnosis. 367 00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:30,920 I keep a copy for myself, a copy for them. 368 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,760 Better to be safe than sorry. 369 00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:36,340 Okay, so you're standing outside your house. 370 00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:38,870 Tell me what you see. 371 00:32:43,530 --> 00:32:45,110 My house. 372 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,330 It is a white house. I'm walking towards the front door. 373 00:32:50,330 --> 00:32:51,460 Alright. 374 00:32:51,460 --> 00:32:54,600 Now I want you to go inside the house. 375 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,730 I want you to move slowly over the house, 376 00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:59,460 I want you to describe what you see, 377 00:33:01,350 --> 00:33:04,430 where you live, show me a guided tour. 378 00:33:16,330 --> 00:33:20,320 Okay, I'm walking down the hallway... 379 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,480 towards Alice's room. 380 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,110 What's there? 381 00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:33,090 I can see Alice's shoes outside her room. 382 00:33:35,810 --> 00:33:38,690 And what does that mean? for you? June? 383 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,810 She always forgets her sneakers outside her room. 384 00:33:48,430 --> 00:33:51,690 So I want you to go now in her room, 385 00:33:51,690 --> 00:33:54,380 Open the door and just move inside. 386 00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:59,340 You feel safe enough go into Alice's room? 387 00:34:01,370 --> 00:34:04,050 - Alright. - Now open the door. 388 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,320 I'll go into her room. 389 00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:27,310 You can see something right? 390 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,570 Tell me what you see, June. 391 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,680 She... 392 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,320 Alice is sitting in a wicker chair at the end of her bed. 393 00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:51,120 She looks sad. 394 00:34:56,620 --> 00:34:59,460 The first time I met Ray was when June Take me home for dinner... 395 00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:02,340 on the night of her first consultation. 396 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,350 And great, I'm completely indifferent to psychology, 397 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,230 I don't really have a position on them at all. 398 00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:11,400 I really don't want them Come for dinner, remember, 399 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,850 but you know, I also don't want to make June sad. 400 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,630 He is a pleasant person, he's not spooky at all. 401 00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:21,190 And I was on my best behavior. 402 00:35:22,050 --> 00:35:24,880 A few days later, maybe a week later, 403 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,820 I suggested it to my family that we hold a séance. 404 00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:33,470 June was really caring, but I remember Russell flatly refused. 405 00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:36,760 I think in the end Mathew talked his dad around. 406 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,810 Mathew, how do you feel about having a séance held at your home? 407 00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:48,170 Actually at that time I was kind of interest, kind of curiosity. 408 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:52,220 I don't think Dad was happy about ideas. 409 00:35:52,540 --> 00:35:57,200 But, yes, I thought This will be very interesting. 410 00:35:57,550 --> 00:35:59,910 And I suggested we film it, 411 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,350 and I recorded it just by our video cameras, 412 00:36:03,350 --> 00:36:05,160 that is PC9. 413 00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:11,710 I am gaining a strong presence in the room. 414 00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:14,140 Indoor. 415 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:20,470 I think we all do that the séance had failed. 416 00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:25,470 Ray really couldn't think of anything, like, with any sign or anything, 417 00:36:25,470 --> 00:36:29,600 So after about an hour or so, we called it quits, 418 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,910 and it wasn't until the next day... 419 00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:36,920 which Mathew is considering Scene... 420 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,870 that there is an image of Alice. 421 00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:43,040 Make your presence known to us. 422 00:37:03,150 --> 00:37:07,420 The new footage is completely different to the hallway scene. 423 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,230 For one, it's significant More detail should be less vague. 424 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,660 And it can't be missed... 425 00:37:16,660 --> 00:37:22,640 like a coincidence of shadow play and digital noise. 426 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:30,650 There's something inexplicable in our house, it is unquestionable. 427 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,290 I was interested. This is so beautiful Foreign territory for me. 428 00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:43,500 I've never seen a ghost before. 429 00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:06,370 Ray asks Mathew to help him set it up 3 fixed cameras in the house... 430 00:38:06,370 --> 00:38:10,890 recorded in time-lapse configuration 24 hours a day. 431 00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:18,160 There has been a lot of speculation about Ray and what he did there. 432 00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:20,580 I mean, when people don't know... 433 00:38:20,580 --> 00:38:24,900 which of course leads to a lot of talking and a lot of speculation. 434 00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:28,280 I've been hearing rumors throughout July of video images... 435 00:38:28,290 --> 00:38:31,770 intended to be an apparition stay in the house. 436 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,140 But I have to say I was skeptical as to their legitimacy. 437 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,180 - And your opinion about Ray? - Also very skeptical. 438 00:38:41,970 --> 00:38:44,270 I think they see me as one type Rasputin's image... 439 00:38:44,270 --> 00:38:46,900 enchanted the Palmers, steal their money, 440 00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:49,160 Edit Alice's photos. 441 00:38:52,420 --> 00:38:56,100 Especially, Mathew seems to be really struggling. 442 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,450 I think I can help this boy by being there, you know. 443 00:39:06,450 --> 00:39:08,960 - That's good. Beautiful. - Well done. 444 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,340 That said, My main motivation is professionalism. 445 00:39:12,340 --> 00:39:13,700 Something is happening inside that house... 446 00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:16,390 and I want to find out what it is. 447 00:40:11,660 --> 00:40:14,500 What is your reaction? to these images? 448 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,080 We were completely be fascinated by them. 449 00:40:20,570 --> 00:40:23,400 But before we had time, you know, understand what that means... 450 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,780 Withers' video debut. 451 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:27,940 - Go ahead. - Is it good? 452 00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:30,190 - Yeah, great. - Can I see? 453 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,240 Yes, be careful. 454 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:36,440 Cathy and Doug Withers was at the dam on April 3, 455 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,480 the same day that Bob Smeet The photo was taken. 456 00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:42,500 - Be careful. - What do you think I will do? 457 00:40:43,090 --> 00:40:48,710 - Give it back. Be careful. - It's safe in my hands, baby. 458 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,210 It was a few months later, late July, 459 00:40:56,570 --> 00:41:01,970 when we watched our footage that we shot down the dam... 460 00:41:01,970 --> 00:41:04,630 and accidentally met... 461 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:09,760 A character in the background, whom we identified as Bob Smeet, 462 00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:13,050 What interests us is that there is... 463 00:41:13,050 --> 00:41:17,110 Well, obviously we didn't... We went, "That was the day he was there... 464 00:41:17,110 --> 00:41:20,490 "when he took the picture that everyone is talking about". 465 00:41:20,490 --> 00:41:23,620 So then we went through all our shoots... 466 00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:26,790 to see if we can might as well have captured that number. 467 00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:30,480 - Maybe the camera saw what Bob saw. - Yes. Yes. 468 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,430 And we found a number in the background 469 00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:38,460 just like the picture has depicted in his painting. 470 00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:40,340 And then we took a closer look... 471 00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:46,190 - and Doug zoomed in on it. - Yes, I went straight to the computer. 472 00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:50,480 And from what, you know, maybe looks like a female character... 473 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,250 from far away, 474 00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:55,150 come close and close, 475 00:41:55,150 --> 00:42:00,130 You can see that for sure neither female nor Alice. 476 00:42:00,130 --> 00:42:01,940 That's Mathew. 477 00:42:04,330 --> 00:42:06,800 - Do you believe in ghosts? - ARE NOT. 478 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,020 - No no. - ARE NOT. 479 00:42:11,370 --> 00:42:14,810 Yes, this is where I was when the photo of Bob Smeet was taken. 480 00:42:14,810 --> 00:42:20,040 I'm wearing Alice's jacket and mine I looked up and I saw a man on the hill, 481 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,340 who turned out to be Bob Smeet. 482 00:42:22,350 --> 00:42:26,230 And I don't want to be in a photo. 483 00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:30,820 So I walked through the bushes. 484 00:42:30,820 --> 00:42:35,260 What I don't see is also there a couple over there filming, 485 00:42:35,260 --> 00:42:37,170 who turns out to be Withers. 486 00:42:41,370 --> 00:42:44,360 When the Withers story came out, Dad came to me... 487 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,810 and asked if I would join in anything else. 488 00:42:47,810 --> 00:42:51,690 And I don't want to lie to him, so I told him. 489 00:42:59,950 --> 00:43:02,220 And I explained to my father that I am responsible... 490 00:43:02,220 --> 00:43:04,380 for Alice's image in the hallway... 491 00:43:04,380 --> 00:43:09,990 and the bedroom that I created April 28 backyard photo... 492 00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:12,110 and seance images. 493 00:43:12,430 --> 00:43:14,260 I just told him what I did. 494 00:43:14,260 --> 00:43:15,600 Okay, if so... 495 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,430 I have two photos, a photo of Alice and the backyard... 496 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,740 and combine the images. 497 00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:24,970 That's the photo I took of Alice. 498 00:43:24,970 --> 00:43:27,270 Mom keeps talking about... 499 00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:29,370 She always talks about Alice's exhumation, 500 00:43:29,370 --> 00:43:34,150 and she was really interested in the idea that Dad misidentified her body. 501 00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:37,420 And so I know it without further ado proof that it won't happen, 502 00:43:37,420 --> 00:43:40,260 so I made this photo. 503 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,210 I just used an old video of Alice... 504 00:43:48,770 --> 00:43:52,500 and I played it on TV. 505 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:54,400 I've got a TV on the bookshelf... 506 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,340 and it's so simple like turning a mirror... 507 00:43:57,340 --> 00:44:00,940 hence the reflection of TV appears in it. 508 00:44:00,940 --> 00:44:03,540 And clearly the mirror is quite small, 509 00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:05,410 so it was cut off the edges of the TV... 510 00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:07,970 and then, yeah, I just filmed that. 511 00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:10,080 Same with the kitchen and bedroom. 512 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,860 Basically what you see is Alice on TV in the mirror. 513 00:44:24,370 --> 00:44:27,610 Like, it's not about trying to fool everyone. 514 00:44:28,810 --> 00:44:32,070 I guess it's like something better than nothing. 515 00:44:32,070 --> 00:44:36,380 Do you think what you did Did it finally get worse for June? 516 00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:44,660 I think so.. . 517 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,220 Yes. Yeah, maybe I did more difficult for her. 518 00:44:50,220 --> 00:44:53,270 But I mean, that wasn't my intention. 519 00:44:55,930 --> 00:45:01,210 I'm not so sure about his reasons. 520 00:45:01,940 --> 00:45:04,350 I didn't know that I... 521 00:45:05,810 --> 00:45:07,390 Total... 522 00:45:11,110 --> 00:45:14,440 I don't want to say I don't completely believe what he said, 523 00:45:14,450 --> 00:45:18,630 But I'm just not convinced... 524 00:45:19,090 --> 00:45:21,830 that he actually knew why he did it. 525 00:45:28,330 --> 00:45:31,230 When all is out, people want it to make stories and books... 526 00:45:31,230 --> 00:45:35,450 and women's magazines, The entire batch is only pear-shaped. 527 00:45:37,340 --> 00:45:39,430 Look, we just don't know how to handle it. 528 00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:43,940 I mean, you know, we have to protect Matty, we have to protect ourselves, 529 00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:46,740 We must protect Ali's memory. 530 00:45:46,740 --> 00:45:49,580 And we don't have it Any experience... 531 00:45:49,580 --> 00:45:53,850 Address all these concerns in something extremely personal... 532 00:45:53,850 --> 00:45:57,140 that people want to do extremely public. 533 00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,280 I mean, the Palmers wasn't coping well at all at the time. 534 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,100 And things are very bad, They did it the hard way. 535 00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:10,320 This feels like the end of hope for all of us, 536 00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:12,890 but especially in June. 537 00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:17,420 She's really not ready Let Ali go. 538 00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:24,600 She just needs to hang on to her a little longer. 539 00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:31,100 And I don't think she'll admit it, But she was devastated. 540 00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:43,720 She is an interesting girl. 541 00:46:43,730 --> 00:46:47,680 She seems to not get along with June so well. 542 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,530 I thought they really were quite similar. 543 00:46:49,530 --> 00:46:52,830 What's interesting is the two of them may not go so well. 544 00:46:55,710 --> 00:46:58,310 They always seem very similar... 545 00:46:58,310 --> 00:47:03,260 and you can see that Alice lost a lot after June. 546 00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:08,800 But, beyond that, other things became clear as well as after Alice's death. 547 00:47:08,830 --> 00:47:11,920 Maybe that makes some sense of privacy 548 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,110 which the two shared. 549 00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:17,410 Thanks for that. 550 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,420 June was...well, still is... 551 00:47:22,070 --> 00:47:23,870 She keeps to herself a lot, 552 00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:28,490 and it became clear that the same thing happened to Alice. 553 00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:31,170 They have a sense of privacy. 554 00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:33,680 Feeling that there is their private life... 555 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:39,270 that they will choose to share Or don't share, I guess. 556 00:47:44,590 --> 00:47:49,150 It's wonderful when your child arrives and the new expression you have. 557 00:47:49,150 --> 00:47:53,170 But as a mother, you always have doubts... 558 00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:58,010 that you're not doing enough or you're not doing the right thing. 559 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,130 I partly blame myself, that comes from me 560 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,320 Maybe it comes from my mother. 561 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,560 I have never been able to... 562 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,310 I never could To give myself completely to... 563 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:20,600 Come June. 564 00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:25,480 I feel like June is a bit like that, too. 565 00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:29,820 that she couldn't give it her all to Alice. 566 00:48:37,780 --> 00:48:41,120 I hope that Alice already knows I love her so much. 567 00:48:41,980 --> 00:48:45,790 I guess I was holding something back a little when she grew up. 568 00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:52,040 That would be the saddest thing, think she might not know. 569 00:49:01,230 --> 00:49:04,690 Ray suggested that Mathew was with him... 570 00:49:04,690 --> 00:49:08,760 on a trip to his country Victoria, 571 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,070 where he was consulting, 572 00:49:11,070 --> 00:49:14,190 and Mathew jumped at the chance. 573 00:49:15,610 --> 00:49:19,860 - Breakfast. Your scream, I think. - No, I think it was your scream. 574 00:49:35,570 --> 00:49:41,050 I think I realized it when I was away I miss Alice so much... 575 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,290 and that I would never be able to to talk to her again. 576 00:49:47,340 --> 00:49:51,900 I guess that's something acceptance among Ray's customers is growing. 577 00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:56,350 You know, they want to talk to someone or contact the person they lost, 578 00:49:56,350 --> 00:49:59,500 and so do I. 579 00:50:00,590 --> 00:50:05,240 So I'm almost one of Ray's customers in a way too. 580 00:50:10,630 --> 00:50:11,690 - ARE NOT. - Can I throw it at you? 581 00:50:11,690 --> 00:50:13,670 - ARE NOT. - Let's see what happens. 582 00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:14,720 Well, what do you think will happen? 583 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,770 It will hit me then I will get angry. 584 00:50:16,770 --> 00:50:19,110 That's what will happen. ARE NOT! 585 00:50:20,010 --> 00:50:21,780 Be careful of your mouth. 586 00:50:22,010 --> 00:50:24,490 What are you doing in my room? 587 00:50:24,750 --> 00:50:26,220 I do not know. 588 00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:42,970 Get out! 589 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,570 When Ray and I went sightseeing, 590 00:50:52,570 --> 00:50:56,790 We left behind two rented cameras Where are they, in the hallway. 591 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,890 I'm sure there's still something left stay in the house. 592 00:51:01,850 --> 00:51:04,110 And clearly, because we've been apart for 3 days, 593 00:51:04,110 --> 00:51:07,480 You know, We can't change the tape or anything. 594 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:12,390 So we know we'll probably get it about a day and a half for the footage. 595 00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:14,680 But we let them run... 596 00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:18,830 and return on August 22, 597 00:51:18,830 --> 00:51:22,020 at which point we examined the tapes. 598 00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:51,250 It was just Russell and I in the house When these images are recorded, 599 00:51:51,250 --> 00:51:54,780 Mathew couldn't get anything to do with them. 600 00:51:56,170 --> 00:52:00,110 They seem to have proven that there is a ghost in our house. 601 00:52:01,070 --> 00:52:02,810 Alice's ghost. 602 00:52:11,010 --> 00:52:13,260 Do you believe in ghosts? 603 00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:16,190 Not familiar yet, 604 00:52:19,060 --> 00:52:22,210 But that's a hard thing to prove or refute. 605 00:52:26,930 --> 00:52:28,510 I think.. . 606 00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:33,050 Yes, sometimes I think Maybe they exist. 607 00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:36,680 There are ghosts everywhere. 608 00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:38,850 It's a scary world. 609 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:41,300 I don't know why it matters. 610 00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,640 It's like how it helps people, like, dealing with her loss, 611 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,130 like making up stories about ghosts or whatever. 612 00:52:52,890 --> 00:52:55,480 It throws up a question mark more than anything. 613 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,490 I went back and watched all the footage again that has come before, 614 00:52:59,490 --> 00:53:03,770 All materials are brought indoors after Alice's death. 615 00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:14,240 That's when I was looking at Mathew's Corridor document dated June 13 re, 616 00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:17,490 that I noticed something in the picture. 617 00:53:18,410 --> 00:53:19,570 There is a second image, 618 00:53:19,570 --> 00:53:22,640 It's not Mathew in the hallway but someone else, 619 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,590 squatting in the dark in Alice's room. 620 00:53:26,350 --> 00:53:28,470 At first I thought it was Alice. 621 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,780 Then I realized it was our neighbor, Brett Toohey. 622 00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:47,130 What is this man doing in my house, in my daughter's room... 623 00:53:47,130 --> 00:53:50,050 more than six months after her death? 624 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:01,260 When I found Alice's safe, I realized exactly why he was there. 625 00:54:05,260 --> 00:54:07,630 He's looking for the tape. 626 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,940 That's it. 627 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,590 But it's a... It wasn't a good day. 628 00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:43,240 Correct. 629 00:54:43,690 --> 00:54:45,660 - I made a smoke ring. - Correct. 630 00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:48,420 You two are getting nice and cozy without me. 631 00:54:48,430 --> 00:54:52,520 Alice starts babysitting for the Toohey family in 2002, 632 00:54:52,530 --> 00:54:55,870 and she continued for the next two and a half years. 633 00:54:55,870 --> 00:54:59,450 Two Tooheys boys were five and nine years old. 634 00:55:01,740 --> 00:55:06,830 I really couldn't believe my eyes. 635 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,840 It just makes me feel so sad. 636 00:55:20,060 --> 00:55:23,760 As far as I know, The Tooheys were complicit in Ali's death. 637 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,230 I believe that without them, She will contact us. 638 00:55:27,230 --> 00:55:29,700 She won't feel guilty. 639 00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:33,180 She won't feel burdened of that secret. 640 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,460 She will not be isolated. 641 00:55:39,710 --> 00:55:42,520 How do you feel about Brett now? 642 00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:46,660 If he's on the corner, Maybe I'll strangle him. 643 00:55:47,050 --> 00:55:51,010 He seems like a nice guy. You know, he's very nice. 644 00:55:51,010 --> 00:55:57,040 We talked and he was never like that, you know, upset or whatever. 645 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,860 He has a swimming pool at his place and often... 646 00:56:00,860 --> 00:56:01,860 We used to swim there Occasionally. 647 00:56:01,860 --> 00:56:02,960 - Yes. - During the summer. 648 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,190 So usually we just go to his place and swim there. 649 00:56:07,310 --> 00:56:08,500 I'm really confused... 650 00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:11,100 - about, you know, what happened. - Yes. 651 00:56:11,100 --> 00:56:13,510 It took a long time to realize... 652 00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:16,710 'Cause you know, Little did I know that Alice would... 653 00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:18,150 No, be with someone, I know. 654 00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:20,120 Yeah, it was like a total surprise. 655 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,090 Like, we just didn't think, you know, she would do something like that. 656 00:56:24,090 --> 00:56:25,500 Yes. 657 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,200 Why do you think Alice has the tape? 658 00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:35,430 Because she doesn't want them to get it. 659 00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:38,910 - Why so? - I think she doesn't trust them anymore. 660 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,390 They must have been desperate to get that tape. 661 00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:48,260 From this moment on that they heard about Alice's death, 662 00:56:48,550 --> 00:56:52,930 they would have lived in constant fear of being discovered. 663 00:56:56,090 --> 00:57:00,170 I'm glad he couldn't find it. I'm glad he knows it's not over yet. 664 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,790 I have had a lot of personal transactions with the Palmers during this time... 665 00:57:06,790 --> 00:57:08,690 As a member of the investigation team... 666 00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:12,380 trying to locate Brett and Marissa Tooheyand's family. 667 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,770 And we were initially very optimistic that they will be found... 668 00:57:17,770 --> 00:57:19,850 and the charges laid. 669 00:57:20,140 --> 00:57:22,830 But unfortunately, Potential customers we are working with... 670 00:57:23,350 --> 00:57:26,960 soon dried up, and so the investigation stalled. 671 00:57:27,950 --> 00:57:31,550 So the police advice to us is that even if the Toohey family were captured, 672 00:57:31,550 --> 00:57:33,350 they will get off the bus with a suspended sentence... 673 00:57:33,350 --> 00:57:36,220 by declaring that gender there was consensus, 674 00:57:36,220 --> 00:57:40,710 that is, they stated, you know, supported by video evidence. 675 00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:44,510 Jason, do you know about Alice's relationship with Brett? 676 00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:47,550 Are not. No one does that. 677 00:57:49,540 --> 00:57:51,520 Obviously I didn't. 678 00:57:51,940 --> 00:57:55,090 We wouldn't go out if I did. That's... NO. 679 00:57:56,350 --> 00:58:00,330 I thought we were... I think we're pretty good. 680 00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:14,510 It just leaves a lot unanswered questions. 681 00:58:15,460 --> 00:58:17,690 Why is she involved with him? 682 00:58:17,690 --> 00:58:20,600 When did the relationship begin? 683 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,440 Does she love either of them? 684 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,150 I just don't know. 685 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,890 The Tooheys sold their house and moved away, 6 months after Alice died. 686 00:58:44,590 --> 00:58:46,570 Alice kept the secret. 687 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,070 She kept the truth She kept a secret. 688 00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:55,700 What changes the way I assume you see someone, 689 00:58:55,700 --> 00:58:59,650 when you realize that they did hide you a bit. 690 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:05,440 I think I know an Alice and maybe her mother knew someone else, 691 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,530 and there's another one that perhaps none of us know. 692 00:59:23,860 --> 00:59:27,190 I found Ray's business card Pasted into Alice's diary... 693 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,810 on the bookmarked page July 12, 2005 694 00:59:36,110 --> 00:59:38,170 Why did you come to see me, Alice? 695 00:59:38,170 --> 00:59:41,090 Can you interpret dreams? 696 00:59:41,250 --> 00:59:42,830 Sometimes. 697 00:59:43,410 --> 00:59:45,600 How do you feel when you wake up? from these dreams? 698 00:59:50,750 --> 00:59:52,190 They scared me a little. 699 00:59:52,190 --> 00:59:55,960 Alice came to see me about five months before she died. 700 00:59:56,430 --> 00:59:58,360 I think she heard me on the radio a few times... 701 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,830 and call and make an appointment. 702 01:00:00,830 --> 01:00:03,420 Take a deep breath. Close your eyes. 703 01:00:03,420 --> 01:00:05,930 I want you to imagine You are standing outside your house 704 01:00:05,930 --> 01:00:08,810 When you see it, please let me know. 705 01:00:16,510 --> 01:00:18,590 - Alright? - Yes. 706 01:00:19,620 --> 01:00:23,320 Alright. Now I want you inside front door. 707 01:00:24,350 --> 01:00:27,810 Go into the house. Tell me what you see, where you are. 708 01:00:27,810 --> 01:00:30,690 Ray, why don't you tell June? that you actually met Alice before? 709 01:00:30,690 --> 01:00:33,350 Okay, I'm at the entrance. . . 710 01:00:33,350 --> 01:00:35,660 Look, I don't think it's a crime hide something from them. 711 01:00:35,660 --> 01:00:40,250 More than that I am honoring Alice's security request. 712 01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:43,920 But damn it if you do, damned if you don't, you know. 713 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,070 The living room is right in front. 714 01:00:48,070 --> 01:00:50,580 Then you go right... 715 01:00:50,580 --> 01:00:55,390 and my room is at the back the house as you walk towards the kitchen. 716 01:00:56,180 --> 01:00:59,530 Do you see anything unusual? Is there any difference? 717 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:03,800 ARE NOT. 718 01:01:04,130 --> 01:01:07,820 No, we don't feel it as if we can trust Ray anymore. 719 01:01:07,820 --> 01:01:11,390 For whatever reason he had about keeping that information to yourself, 720 01:01:11,390 --> 01:01:14,340 it still feels like a betrayal. 721 01:01:19,870 --> 01:01:24,670 I want to help June and her family and I think they want me to help them. 722 01:01:24,670 --> 01:01:28,260 I won't be able to do that if they know. 723 01:01:29,050 --> 01:01:33,260 There's a bit of resentment. Mathew doesn't even talk to me. 724 01:01:33,450 --> 01:01:35,350 But what I think really hurt them more than anything... 725 01:01:35,350 --> 01:01:41,170 that's what they consider my failure to witness Alice's remarkable passing. 726 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,670 Looking back, it's like, it's a bit strange 727 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,880 that someone would, you know, stay close to us like he was... 728 01:01:52,140 --> 01:01:55,820 I thought, maybe, he needed us as much as we need him. 729 01:02:08,420 --> 01:02:11,800 Alice came to see me because she is sad. 730 01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:15,040 She is a very troubled person. 731 01:02:17,130 --> 01:02:19,060 "I had a dream last night. 732 01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:23,900 "I'm cold and wet. I feel heavy, like I'm drugged, 733 01:02:23,900 --> 01:02:27,920 "and when I woke up, These feelings have not gone away. 734 01:02:28,570 --> 01:02:34,320 "I feel tired and confused and I started to get scared. 735 01:02:35,710 --> 01:02:38,450 "I need to see my mother to talk to her. 736 01:02:39,350 --> 01:02:41,010 "I happened to go to her room... 737 01:02:41,010 --> 01:02:44,280 "and as I stood there by the bed, see them, 738 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,870 "I got over it by this intense sadness. 739 01:02:48,790 --> 01:02:50,740 "Then sadness turned into fear. 740 01:02:51,260 --> 01:02:53,600 "I just stood there paralyzed by fear... 741 01:02:53,860 --> 01:02:58,130 "and I realized there was nothing that they can do for me too. 742 01:02:58,130 --> 01:03:00,850 "I've never felt so completely alone. 743 01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,520 "Everything feels wrong. my body, 744 01:03:06,510 --> 01:03:08,370 "the way things look. 745 01:03:08,370 --> 01:03:12,260 “Then I realized there was something is wrong with me. 746 01:03:14,180 --> 01:03:18,060 "I started crying, standing there at the foot of the bed.” 747 01:03:49,420 --> 01:03:52,710 Lake Mungo is located in the southwest New South Wales, 748 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,920 and that is the position of the school camp that Alice attended... 749 01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,680 from August 2 for the 5th time in 2005. 750 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,970 When she got home, She said she had a good time. 751 01:04:06,970 --> 01:04:08,690 I especially miss it... 752 01:04:08,700 --> 01:04:12,260 because she went home without her cell phone, 753 01:04:12,260 --> 01:04:14,530 that we bought for her a month ago, 754 01:04:14,530 --> 01:04:17,920 and her favorite bracelet and watch. 755 01:04:20,380 --> 01:04:25,620 Well, other than that, you know, she doesn't really talk about it too much. 756 01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:29,130 Wait guys! 757 01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:38,320 Well, Kim hasn't shown it to me in about a year after she returned from camp... 758 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,860 what she took on her cell phone. 759 01:04:40,860 --> 01:04:43,240 So why did you decide to tell June? 760 01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,360 Well, if we don't tell June, 761 01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,300 then it will be as if we were hiding something. 762 01:04:49,300 --> 01:04:52,860 So I don't know why... 763 01:04:54,350 --> 01:04:57,900 I don't know why, but why not? 764 01:04:57,950 --> 01:04:59,970 Smile for me! 765 01:04:59,970 --> 01:05:03,430 - Smile. - They were a little drunk, that's all. 766 01:05:04,020 --> 01:05:09,300 Jason told us about the phone footage which the girls took at Lake Mungo. 767 01:05:17,130 --> 01:05:19,970 Other girls looks so happy... 768 01:05:19,970 --> 01:05:23,630 and she looked quite desperate. 769 01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:28,620 I was worried. I was convinced that something happened to her. 770 01:05:34,550 --> 01:05:36,850 So just take a little bit. need some of that. 771 01:05:36,850 --> 01:05:40,150 Kate's phone footage taken that night... 772 01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:42,910 once the girls had dispersed on the moon. 773 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,260 - anywhere. - I think we need to take a picture. 774 01:05:46,260 --> 01:05:50,780 Like Africa. Like the desert. 775 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,760 There is an image of Alice, very difficult to decode, 776 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,250 at the bottom of the frame Kneel under the tree. 777 01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,210 Only after watching the clip several times... 778 01:06:02,210 --> 01:06:05,050 which we have realised what she is doing. 779 01:06:05,580 --> 01:06:07,850 She's burying something. 780 01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:14,680 I mean, do you know what happened happened that night with Alice? 781 01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,030 ARE NOT. 782 01:06:17,630 --> 01:06:19,900 I know she lost her phone. 783 01:06:21,030 --> 01:06:25,260 I know she is sad because that's pretty obvious. 784 01:06:25,260 --> 01:06:27,210 But I don't know why she was sad. 785 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,730 She didn't say she saw anything, She really didn't say anything to me. 786 01:06:32,730 --> 01:06:37,220 I really don't... maybe, take it seriously at the time. 787 01:06:37,740 --> 01:06:39,710 You know, it's like context. 788 01:06:39,710 --> 01:06:41,890 You know, we just had good times... 789 01:06:41,890 --> 01:06:44,160 and I just thought she was a bit upset. 790 01:06:55,660 --> 01:06:57,900 It starts out simple enough. 791 01:06:58,630 --> 01:07:01,030 Alice leaves the group... 792 01:07:01,030 --> 01:07:04,910 and started walking alone. 793 01:07:06,610 --> 01:07:09,920 But that's... Obviously, something is bothering her. 794 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,890 And we wanted to try to find out What is it? 795 01:07:31,460 --> 01:07:35,400 We understand from the phone video that she had buried something. 796 01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,730 We had an idea Where is that tree... 797 01:07:37,730 --> 01:07:41,750 for what we can see from video. 798 01:07:43,610 --> 01:07:45,730 We really didn't want to go down all day long... 799 01:07:45,730 --> 01:07:49,370 because, you know, we don't want to dig, 800 01:07:49,370 --> 01:07:51,930 you know, where the tourists are. 801 01:07:54,020 --> 01:07:56,460 So we decided to go in the evening. 802 01:08:13,570 --> 01:08:17,760 June and I started digging and after a moment, 803 01:08:19,380 --> 01:08:23,170 June says she found something and she took out a plastic bag. 804 01:08:23,180 --> 01:08:28,840 And inside the plastic bag has Ali's favorite necklace, 805 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,800 her ring, her watch, her cell phone. 806 01:08:32,990 --> 01:08:35,730 Her most precious thing... 807 01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,130 buried here, in the school camp, 808 01:08:39,330 --> 01:08:41,550 and we don't know why she did that. 809 01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,690 I mean, we already know from the video that she had buried something, 810 01:08:44,700 --> 01:08:47,540 but we don't know what it is. 811 01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:52,250 It's about to run out of battery. 812 01:09:11,230 --> 01:09:13,440 Are you afraid of death? 813 01:09:14,900 --> 01:09:19,310 Yes, of course I'm afraid of death. Isn't everyone afraid of death? 814 01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:29,450 Do you want to tell me a little? about what happens in these dreams? 815 01:09:31,310 --> 01:09:35,460 I feel like something is wrong will happen to me. 816 01:09:36,250 --> 01:09:39,200 I feel like something is wrong happened. 817 01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,960 It hasn't reached me yet, But it's on its way. 818 01:09:45,830 --> 01:09:47,980 And it's getting closer. 819 01:09:49,330 --> 01:09:51,290 And I don't feel ready. 820 01:09:51,300 --> 01:09:54,840 I feel like there's nothing I can do. 821 01:10:08,180 --> 01:10:09,970 At some point, 822 01:10:09,980 --> 01:10:14,670 This figure walked towards her from the dark. 823 01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:18,510 I recognize the face as soon as I saw it on the phone video. 824 01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:23,940 It is the same face of the body which I located at the dam. 825 01:10:25,060 --> 01:10:28,150 It is Ali's body and Ali's face. 826 01:10:35,770 --> 01:10:40,860 Absolutely yes there is no reasonable explanation... 827 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:45,900 because of what she saw on that phone. 828 01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:05,450 Stay away from me. 829 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,370 - Oh my God, they're coming. - Stay away! 830 01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:49,260 I was convinced that Alice knew she was dying. 831 01:11:49,610 --> 01:11:50,630 I firmly believe that. 832 01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:53,330 Bundle up, bundle up, bundle up. 833 01:11:54,110 --> 01:11:58,460 I think the image is at Lake Mungo is an omen for her. 834 01:11:58,890 --> 01:12:03,720 The burial of her property iconic, 835 01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:05,630 it's a ritual. 836 01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,960 No, I was never convinced that Ali believed she was going to die. 837 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,830 You know, she definitely has sick thoughts. I mean, who doesn't? 838 01:12:16,830 --> 01:12:21,450 And she had nightmares that bothered her, and enough to consult Ray. 839 01:12:25,710 --> 01:12:27,470 I don't know that someone is actually convinced... 840 01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:29,660 that they will die. 841 01:12:33,250 --> 01:12:34,720 What about images? at Lake Mungo? 842 01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,050 What do you think? Will Alice explain that? 843 01:12:38,050 --> 01:12:40,700 How can she explain it? 844 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,080 Look, I think Ali saw a ghost. 845 01:12:50,370 --> 01:12:53,520 But she must not know that it was hers alone. 846 01:12:54,210 --> 01:12:56,200 I believe she recorded a ghost. 847 01:12:56,200 --> 01:13:00,260 I believe she recorded the future come pick her up. 848 01:13:17,790 --> 01:13:23,680 We knew about the Tooheys, Ray, and what happened at Lake Mungo. 849 01:13:24,930 --> 01:13:28,180 And when we returned home, 850 01:13:29,670 --> 01:13:32,480 The house feels different. That's... 851 01:13:34,140 --> 01:13:35,520 Calm. 852 01:13:44,420 --> 01:13:50,230 I think Alice wants us to know more about her. 853 01:13:50,660 --> 01:13:54,670 She wanted us to know who she really is, 854 01:13:56,060 --> 01:13:57,780 before she... 855 01:13:58,700 --> 01:14:01,350 You know, before she could leave. 856 01:14:07,780 --> 01:14:13,930 In the weeks and months following Lake Mungo, We started to feel like a family again. 857 01:14:15,250 --> 01:14:17,270 It really got to us. 858 01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:23,130 We were a bit dazed and shaken, but we are still a family. 859 01:14:31,730 --> 01:14:32,820 - Hello Ray. - Nice to meet you, Russell. 860 01:14:32,820 --> 01:14:34,830 Yes you do too. Pretty. Come in. 861 01:14:34,830 --> 01:14:36,530 Ray suddenly called... 862 01:14:36,530 --> 01:14:39,330 and said he was going going through town... 863 01:14:39,330 --> 01:14:43,610 and asked if everything was okay If he can visit. 864 01:14:44,180 --> 01:14:45,730 Six months have passed, 865 01:14:45,740 --> 01:14:50,680 and I just feel that in that situation, 866 01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,490 I don't think it can do any harm. 867 01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:00,670 I think we all feel like after Mungo, 868 01:15:01,090 --> 01:15:05,110 in our own way, there is an end, I suppose, to some extent. 869 01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:07,760 And, you know, for each of us it is different. 870 01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:11,250 And for each of us, we have our own peace. 871 01:15:17,780 --> 01:15:22,910 It seems strange to me that Ali should withdraw so suddenly. 872 01:15:22,910 --> 01:15:27,560 And we didn't help her, We didn't change anything. 873 01:15:28,050 --> 01:15:33,760 I think we're just together decided to move forward. 874 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,490 And, you know, the move... 875 01:15:37,490 --> 01:15:41,750 really a big part of all that... Decided to move. 876 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,100 It will be difficult to leave the house. 877 01:16:04,220 --> 01:16:07,300 Sometimes, you know, I just forgot about that... 878 01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,910 She won't come back. 879 01:16:14,300 --> 01:16:15,810 I forgot. 880 01:16:46,330 --> 01:16:49,510 Alright. Close your eyes... 881 01:16:51,130 --> 01:16:54,940 and imagine that you are back stand outside the house. 882 01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:58,010 Can you see it? 883 01:17:02,180 --> 01:17:04,190 Go inside the house. 884 01:17:06,450 --> 01:17:09,100 I'm walking through the front door. 885 01:17:11,420 --> 01:17:12,830 And... 886 01:17:15,790 --> 01:17:18,870 Walk down the hallway towards Alice's room. 887 01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,810 There's someone there. 888 01:17:27,570 --> 01:17:29,690 I think someone is coming down the hall. 889 01:17:29,690 --> 01:17:31,420 The doors opened. 890 01:17:33,770 --> 01:17:35,890 Do you know who that is? 891 01:17:47,620 --> 01:17:49,770 Do you want to go inside? 892 01:17:50,860 --> 01:17:52,200 Yes. 893 01:17:54,190 --> 01:17:55,470 Alright. 894 01:18:06,100 --> 01:18:09,350 - What do you see? - That's my mother. 895 01:18:11,610 --> 01:18:13,520 What is she saying? 896 01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,220 She doesn't... She didn't say anything. 897 01:18:23,590 --> 01:18:26,270 I don't think she knew I was there. 898 01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:31,840 Alice isn't here. 899 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:34,970 She's not here. 900 01:18:36,530 --> 01:18:38,220 What's going on, Alice? 901 01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,760 Are you talking to her? Is she talking to you? 902 01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:43,680 She's about to leave. 903 01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:47,990 She is leaving the room. 904 01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:52,290 She's gone. 905 01:18:52,820 --> 01:18:54,590 Open your eyes. 906 01:19:48,530 --> 01:19:50,380 She's about to leave. 907 01:19:52,770 --> 01:19:54,920 She is leaving the room. 908 01:20:03,820 --> 01:20:05,470 By all means. 909 01:20:24,570 --> 01:20:26,180 She's gone.